In December 2007, Merle and I quietly left Mars Hill Church. (Those wounded by MD) must forgive even if (MD) never admits wrong. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. This pastor was humble! I guess Calvinism for these guys means never having to take personal responsibility. So we were allowed to leave in good standing. They knew exactly what they were buying. We dont hear about them so much, unfortunately, because they are not so concerned with informing the world about their humility. That idea was right before the idea that they were always having to give a lot of money to the church while we have voluntary giving. What Im curious though is how the church (corporate) can self regulate against that in the face of the money and power, both spiritual and temporal, that types like MD help create. How far can a pastor go in preaching the gospel when it comes to a political issue? I believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. In the wake of this and other scandals, the Mars Hill Church collapsed. Thanks for the link i want to read more of the writers work. I would think that rehabilitation for him would be finding a job where he was not the boss and not the teacher. I seriously doubt that most younger people then or now who appropriate his image (here in N. America) know much of anything about him. I read your comment and have thought about this a lot. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. In his sermon, Lindell cites several verses to make his No. Some of it probably is. The he takes him back to Antioch where they work together for a year with converted Gentiles. Anyone who knowingly overlooks all this has no judgement. your post, and this one i read on facebook yesterday: I then stood up and pointed out that 30 lines below the famous quote All men are created equal the Declaration of Independence refers to Natives as merciless Indian savages. http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/. "It was clear to me that Mark's attendance had the potential to divert attention from the real purpose of Hillsong Conference, which is to see people leave encouraged in their own spiritual journey.". When you add atmosphere teams to further manipulate peoples worship experience that is too much. He can be forgiven. I dont equate it with forgiveness at all. one had an alcohol problem 3 years ago and one has a drug problem that recently occured due to overprescribing of pain medication turned to street drug use. No one has to agree with me. The disciples send him off to Tarsus and after that-there was peace for a time in the churches in Judea, Galilee and Samaria.:o). Is that leader with a criminal record hitting on your young teen? I cant see those photos without also thinking of the images weve all seen of the impossible circumstances our hospitals are battling every day, Goddard began in a series of tweets. There is a very strong argument for both priests and politicians to have both life and work experience before they enter the fray, however this is the age of the career priest and pollie. (figuratively)) Later he show us all how it was done. News flash: Jesus is the hero of scripture. Thank you again. Plus I put up some Mozart for you guys. Pokin has been at the paper three years and over the course of his career has covered just about everything from courts and cops to features and fitness. Going forward, we are committed to doing a better job of encouraging and maintaining the procedures necessary to keep people safe and secure, James River Church officials explained. until he apologizes to the elders and church members he hurt so badly i dont think there will be a true repentance that God can use. The Reformed Neo Cal world is going, Mark who?. Church buildings do not equal Jesus Christ. In his introductory remarks, he spoke of Marks kindness, humility. After witnessing Philips miracles, he tried to buy the power with his money. "Although I don't think I'm going to 'love' this column.". All you have to do is say some magic words and we end up being the mean ones if dare say we otherwise. The Bible tells us lotz of neet stuff before it happen/happens. Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. Of course BHouston can know about MDs statements in the past 5 minutes of Googling will turn up Wenatchee The Hatchets meticulous documentation, screenshots and all, and Warren Throckmortons extensive documentation, the mp3 of the infamous sermon in Scotland, etc pp. Brad Pitt cancelled his wedding there due to the churchs anti-gay preaching. Now the floodgates will open wide now that his massive deception becomes public knowledge in Australia and the UK. We have been led by God to support another ministry. Almost all of them pointed to Gods leading. It certainly looked like they had been coached on what to say. @ sam: was an attention getter. i have been ousted from 6 churches already and at first i took it as me being in error and not able to understand the bible or what the Lord had called me to be like but now i am able to see that i can trust the still small voice inside and the Holy Spirit to give me understanding of the scriptures without having to run it by a pastor somewhere. LOL! (remembering marks sermon about mark being king) jesus is seated and he stands up for stephen. The church had 15 locations in five states. Pastor John Lindell mentioned that Mark and Grace founded Mars Hill Church eighteen years ago. when the pastor first says, his humility he almost breaks out laughing (cause maybe he knows how stupid it is to say that). I think Christians make a huge mistake when looking at patterns of spiritual abuse, deception and tyranny as whether or not they are criminal according to our laws. Totally. Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. "Homosexual activity will lead to destruction. . How they hold their hands, pat their hearts, stomp their feet, fall to their knees, wipe away fake tears, etc is all taught in classes. I have no power over what Driscoll does and he is free to speak on any stage that will have him. Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. @ sam: An awful lot of people are having to do the exact same thing. OTOH, they may yet surprise us and probably even themselves. I have also heard the thoroughly abusive interpretation of Psalm 105:15 touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm. According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. instead i find now that the Lord uses other christians to confirm things He has shown me, instead of the Lord teaching me things that others say i should believe and me just accepting them as the word of God because the guy has a position or written a book or is promoted by other pastors. Meanwhile, Mark Driscoll was preparing to deliver his sermon at James River Church, an Assemblies of God megachurch located in the "Show Me State" (Missouri). He is a draw. As some are aware, the result of me pleading for a fair trial and arguing for due deliberation when changing bylaws was that Mark Driscoll, in an abusive and vile manner, threatened to destroy me and my ministry. Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. Regardless of your tilt on the subject, Lindell appears to go out of his way to make it into the news on the subject. In his introductory remarks, he spoke of Marks kindness, humility. i think that it worked quite well for Youth with a Mission for several years and then it went awry and i dont know the particulars of what happened. Persecuted, but You cant criticize me for a moment. I also told him that before I wrote this story, I transcribed his sermon. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And I saw it. forgiveness means its paid in full. How do you see this as someone looking in? mode. It is certainly understandable we would see it differently. Pun intended. But I never want to deliberately post any false information so I do appreciate any corrections you can add. I would hope we should higher standards than that. appeciate your posts and the others on this blog, i remember that, thanks Van, for the reminder. if mark is not truly repentant, (which is totally conceivable since he has never apologized for anything except being too unkind in firing people and running people into the ground under his God given authority) then this could be compared, (by sin levelers who will be quick to show up here and defend him)this could be compared to Jordan Root getting right back in the mission field and preaching about what happens when women and heathens in the press persecute godly people accused of child porn addictions with no evidence. See here: As you all know, my family and I have been facing difficult trials and persecution. perhaps, assuming cunning strategy on the part of MD and Mark Demoss: *this sector of christainworld is the path of least resistance (especially since from others comments the YRR/reformed world has disowned him). kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. If you become used to a certain standard of living, that does not mean you are entitled to that standard of living. Except we now know Mark didnt actually write he books he used ghost writers and plagiarized, but minor details, an important thing you wrote about gateway i think. I arrived a little late here, and this has likely already been mentioned (I havent read all comments). It was titled "A Biblical Look at Human Sexuality." He repeated what he has said in the past: He believes if the issue is to be addressed it should be done at the federal level. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. i have very little church experience so i dont think i am qualified to even speak to these things though. . i was thinking about how i probably sound critical to some people when i post on here about how i dont think people are apologizing right. . They were perceived as mediators between the person and Christ. The worship leaders are all carefully coached and choreographed on how to appear more worshipful and fake their collective ecstatic elation over being one with their maker. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. Here is Stephen facing public opposition. Brian Houston, pastor of Hillsong Church, issued a statement over the weekend, which drew considerable media attention. Clear All United States - All Cities It is like anyone else that works hard to build something. It was especially appropriate to hear last night since our current sermon series is on the topic of Worship. Youre not one of us. Hmmm, trust the Spirit, and let them be killed like Ananias and Sapphira? Was Pastor Lindells statement just a slip or an attempt to rewrite history? Thanks for sharing your answer Lydia. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. And of course, the author of Acts is writing more of a historical narrative so we dont get a lot of details. Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation) they are plugged in several days a week, basically dropping out of their non-church activities. The word "love" appears, Lindell said, because it would be unloving not to tell someone that when salvation is at stake. We would be interested in any thoughts you may have regarding Mark Driscoll's message. An IRS spokesman in St. Louis would not comment when asked if a pastor could speak from the pulpit to encourage congregants to vote a particular way on an issue. The carpet was worn. Every week seems to get more strange and more openly cult like. Im trying to get people to understand it because theres a whole lot of stuff thats out there thats being said, much of it is just just simply not even close to truth. That does not mean you want harm to come to them. Maybe Driscoll feels a notch above Paul since hes not called for any ones death? If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. Marc turned the offer down and we received the letter from Scott Thomas shortly thereafter. If he is serious about ministry then he needs to stay away from those circumstances which enable him to get into trouble-money, power and the pulpit. I didnt realize tens of thousands had already left. of course i have no idea really what is driving mark driscoll but thats what i think it might be. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. They have a very different take on the fulfillment of prophecy that you may enjoy learning as a contrast with your own beliefs. "A missionary is a qualified Christian sent out under the authority of a local church to an area of recognized need in order to pursue the work of the Great Commission." Maybe that offends me and not you because I believe he lied all along about Jesus Christ and I am hoping to convince people of that? People think that Christians want filled pews and big churches, most do, i strongly disagree with that. I dont beleive that for a moment. I am haunted by that infamous message where he appeared to use a Bible passage to describe what was about to happen to two Mars Hill elders. I want to have the heart for the women in the future who will allow me to be their pastor that I have for my daughters, he said, and that is if they have spiritual gifts, and are called by God, and are godly, I want to help them achieve that intentionally and encourage that and be a support for that.. I know historical accounts can be skewed. It is the normalization of sociopathy. saul walks onto the stage of history. I dont think Christians have to throw out common sense/reason/logic. if mark is truly repentant than this sermon is him explaining how he persecuted and publicly stoned stephen to death which was actually mark stoning Jesus to death publicly and with no remorse. He can be forgiven. Did Paul hire a company to buy his books and get them on the bestseller list? I completely understand why you are so skeptical. I view it as wisdom. I dont think many realize that in order to have real repentance they would have to give all that up. Its America and hes free to do that if he wishes, but its not proper, again, IMO. These Pentecostals keep insisting that almost everything written on the internet about Mark Driscoll isnt even close to the truth. They wear what they believe are trendy shirts typically untucked to cover the middle aged spread with skinny jeans. Now the shock will be realizing how far theyve strayed from those virtues. Its easy to be friendly, humble, attentive, polite, , to your peers and to your superiors. we will see jesus face to face I dont want you to take your slander etc with you. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name., I dont think God has sent any dreams or visions to anyone vouching for Mark Driscoll? These churches are both responsible for vetting their speakers, and they utterly failed on this one. . Join thousands of others to get the FREEDOM POST newsletter for free, sent twice a week from The Christian Post. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. yeah, that pastors comment is kinda too scary for me to think about lol. The way I see things may be different in that I see the individuals in the Kingdom being more important than mediating organizations in the church universal. Same type of focus you describe without the healing stuff. Are you not voting for the candidates and issues Gateway told you to? Doing well as opposed to what? . there is a minor child involved that both of them love deeply. Anyone who invites Driscoll without knowing his background also displays no judgement. In 2002, Agathos began as a ministry to rescue orphans in Africa during the peak of the out-of-control HIV/AIDS crisis. Because you worked with multiple megas you have a very diverse perspective that is invaluable. Additionally, Jonna Petry (who started the blog Joyful Exiles) was shunned along with the Petry children. For mr. driscoll to change the whole meaning of this into the sponge was probably really used as toilet paper because he did some study in some far away country is to bring doubt to Gods prophecies and the fulfilment of them. I hope you dont write off church altogether. Look all those happy people; this must be a great place! Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. I agree with you there, but I wonder, how popular is this hyper macho brand of Christianity anymore? Here me in this, the issue is Jesus. The bible sayz dat soon the darkness is coming when no one will be listening. 33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, "Addressing this topic or the subject of the upcoming vote from the pulpit is not against the law in this country, although it may be in the future," Lindell said in the sermon. Do any of you who oppose Driscoll preaching or running a church again, is there a way he could ever get forgiveness from yall to do that sort of ministry again? #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books. i hope people will go back and read the whole thing if they havent yet. The program includes signing over any welfare benefits to the Ministry, with the program alleged to contain little actual psychological assistance, and mostly prayer and expelling demons. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. The man can speak pretty well and seems to fill the pews. Didnt God send a vision or angel to some other guy, or a dream to him, and tell him about Paul, that Paul could be trusted? The last time Robert Morris met and greeted anyone as part of his service he still had his braces/retainer on. There was another couple along with us who knew a bit more about him and we absolutely amazed that this man, who could have been an elder, could not see through the act which you described so perfectly. Yes, thanks for this. A lot of people will say, 'I got that. And he cant really do that if he keep holding on to the more sexist, frat boy type of Christianity that Neo Calvinists support that he was espousing at Mars Hill. Edit: Thank you to everyone who commented. Not that I think he failed to tell the truth. I felt like an idiot after I said that. I couldnt get through Marks sermon.so what was coming up for me during Pastor Lindells introduction was the idea of the Karpman Drama Triangle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle (Persecutor/Rescuer/Victim roles that people bounce around in during unhealthy interactions.) If Mark Driscoll is going to wanna manipulate his 501(c)3 Church audience to give him a second chance, hes gonna havta try harder. Your comment about magic words reminded me of Simon the Magician in Acts who was so popular and had all kinds of attention because of his magic performances. He faces re-election April 7. They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. Mars Hill Church was ending its relationship to Agathos. Good point as far as it goes. The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. I suppose they could have been made up, although the accounts are supported by numerous descriptions of his pig like behavior. Not a fan but many are. But what does that mean in the larger picture? Mencken: No one in this world, so far as I know and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. When that donor eventually supported our decision to leave peaceably, Jamie Munson was in a pickle. Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truth. Lindell reused the Robert Morris line of chiding his congregation to stop shooting the wounded. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. Christian geneticist and U.S. National Institutes of Health Director Francis Collins suggested most churches should postpone in-person services due to COVID-19 until at least summer 2021, when every American is expected to have had the opportunity to get vaccinated, The Christian Post recently reported. I think that explains a lot of it. Lindell hit two main points: the Bible is clear in its condemnation of homosexuality as sin and the ordinance is an infringement on the religious rights of Christians who believe so. These churches are both responsible for vetting their speakers, and they utterly failed on this one. I believe this is the 2 Thessalonians time period so it will become increasingly more difficult to avoid false teachers. They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. Training ourselves to sense right from wrong based on the Word of God and empowered by the Holy Spirit will result in a clear conscience.. Nancy For more information about James River Church and to get connected, click the link below! I am sorry if anything I wrote about Che offended you. I dont think he would agree he is doing well at all. His auto suggestive words were a dead give away! There is an old belief in bapto-evangelico circles that one of the criticisms that could for sure be said against certain other christian religious traditions is that they have priests and we do not, because they let the priests tell them what to do and influence them too much but in our way of doing things that does not happen. Because he simply cannot be trusted not to repeat himslefthus destroying more lives. But one morning as I sat at my desk in y basement office, I looked up at my little bulletin board. Some are stronger and more capable of speaking out and as we feel able to I believe that we must. There is no reason why he should be a pastor again. Title If there is one thing I know it is that those around Acts 29 circles are now in Mark who? jesus example they put a robe on him a mockery of his kingship. Youre not one of us. Above all he had that coveted edginess he wore age and occupation inappropriate t shirts and chunky jewelry on the pulpit. Your comment is insightful and probably (for the AoG churches) right on the money. I think MD needs a season in the wilderness to really think things out. It is definitely not where all leadership and vision is deferred to one man, and it is definitely not authoritarian. The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. full of manly manness and praise of human strength and wisdom and all the attributes mark has himself. The movie was sooooooo good. Albuquerque Blue wrote: Mark Driscoll was totally missing those things. People shift roles all the time (Mark has obviously been a persecutor a lot!). Im guessing Driscolls trying to resurrect his career by going into Charismatic type denominations or churches. If after many years of that, he wrote a book about how God brought about change within, Id be interested in reading it. Hadnt considered that a pastor would brainwash to that length. As Lydia has wisely pointed out, cult survivors are all at different stages in their recovery. It probably did. their ministry grew and even people that werent christians were thankful for them. @ Bridget: As a follow-up (Sydney Morning Herald 1 July 2015), Hillsong conference shows interview with controversial US Pastor, Mark Driscoll see link Southern Missouri . It really bothers me that he seems to profane things still. It is often just a wise thing to do if one is familiar with those types. Dont miss the title of Lindells May 16, 2014 blog entry: Saul did get out of Dodge for some years. Oops, last comment of mine was supposed to link to this comment. That was not my intention. It is all choreographed and it works! Driscoll also distanced himself from past crude and misogynistic remarks, calling the perception of what I think about womenentirely my own fault. I see inviting Driscoll anywhere in the same context as some dumb kid wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. This guy had his audience eating out of the palms of his hands. I really appreciate your insights Lydia. They are used to being believed no matter what they say. I also have recently spoken to another ministry leader involved in orphan care in Africa. They are relinquishing 10-20% of their gross income. As I was getting ready for church last Sunday morning, I quickly checked my Facebook feed for any news and saw the this headline (see screen shot below): I 'shared' the article from an Australian news source, along with a comment: "Mark Driscoll needs to step away from the microphone for a long season of contemplation.". then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: Don't you know that the way he behaved and treated people is no big deal? Dont you want to be a part of that? actually, i still think mark has a phenomena called mixture of spirits that derek prince wrote about. He threatened to make sure that I could never be in ministry again. There is great comfort to be found in that. You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting such a bully in the name of Jesus Christ. The lack of regard for the masking ordinance and therefore its fellow community members by this venue and its occupants is not condoned by the CCHD, the agency said. I just think that there is not much reason to listen to just his side of the story and think that is all there may be to it. What I didnt know until this year is how much they are invading their universities as well. Otherwise, its authentic shunning for you. What a waste of a ministry! Members are guests? Whats MDs explanation for the ritual shunnings? Why exiles dont speak out is a strange phenomenon. Who would have thought that the message of the Cross for ALL people (the whosoever wills) would be diminished in pentecostal ranks?! He sought out those that God sent Him to minister to in remote places away from crowds. Q. http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, A few items: A preacher is not to be- The emails we received were similarly written. peaceable disposition. (Note I did not diagnose) I do believe seen in that light, it makes it simpler to see how he gets by with it and why some who also make their living in similar ways are promoting him. Considering the level of corruption I impute to mixing with Driscoll, Im not wondering much. I probably wont be won over to the side of communism. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i7lv9oMjv_0&sns=em. By and large, our local churches have been great examples of staying emotionally connected while protecting one another in this pandemicthis example does not do those congregations justice., I stg we're the dumbest country in world. In the case of Chandler, the fudgy language in the apologies does not instill much confidence that the root has been exposed so that it can be dug out. These leaders are lacking even a basic level of discernment or judgement. God, I am running for your heart until my soul is on fire?. It takes at least 6 months before you start seeing things clearly. But guess what else happened? I noted in my comments on the petition that Driscoll still hasnt repented before all and specifically to the people whose lives he damaged, such as former Mars Hill elder/attorney Paul Petry, a godly, decent man.
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