12/12/2012 22:41. It would be a personal tragedy for my partner and me, but that is all. I didn't think my instincts were worth much. I didn't want to be convincing him to agree with me. My partner was away working and was waiting to hear whether he was having a son or daughter. And they took us out of the scanning room, into a more quiet room while they typed up the report. I want to stop having such horrible thoughts. I was sat on the sofa working, my son was at nursery and my partner was in the bath. The rarest scenario is that the baby is severely ill and choices will need to be made. And it all seemed so near at hand, you know, 31, 30 weeks, you feel like you're nearly, you're on the home stretch. On the next shift, the new midwife asked us again. That's fine. So we went back the day after Boxing Day, the 27th, and the consultant greeted us, which made my alarm bells go, and she started scanning us and I think her lines were, 'What concerns me about this baby is that they've got a diaphragmatic hernia, which has meant that part of the stomach of the baby was in its chest cavity.'. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, 'it didn't look good' and that 'my womb looked raggedy'. And this baby sort of floated, and occasionally there was a slight movement, but it was very you could almost see that he was really poorly just from looking at the screen. And still we asked to see a, Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans. Usually, sonographers will ask a senior sonographer colleague to confirm findings and this should be done immediately. For five months my body had known there was something wrong, yet I had felt fantastic. He suggested he perform an amniocentesis immediately, to rule out any chromosomal problems. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me - Tommy's There were also two spots on his heart, which were "soft markers" for Down's syndrome. I didn't really know what that was. I think I don't everything just seems a real blur because it was, it was such a strange experience. I'm trying to understand because I haven't seen a 3-D scan, what it tells the parents? But here I was, minutes later, lying down, waiting. Specialist scans It is impossible to escape them and each one underlines your loss. Check benefits and financial support you can get, Find out about the Energy Bills Support Scheme, NHS fetal anomaly screening programme (FASP), Screening tests for you and your baby (STFYAYB), nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3, more information and details of support groups. The scan looks for 11 different conditions in your baby and cannot find everything that might be wrong. But with time although we will never forget, I know we will be ok again. And it was then because we were at 20 weeks by this point, there was only fairly short window to actually, to get some more tests done, find out what the problems were, and then make any decisions that might have to be made. But other than that everything was fine. I had no issues at my 20wk scan with DD - and neither did any of my antenatal group (9 mums). Those two weeks were agonising for us both. And it turned out the baby's heart wasn't forming properly, the chambers weren't forming properly. I mean, you just, you're just overwhelmed, it's so much fun. The sonographer told me to take the notes, and the scan photos with me so they could review them also. I can feel my child kick, it responds when he shouts at football - I mean literally, this baby used to dance around whenever he'd like scream at a goal - and there cannot be anything wrong with this child because it's part of us already. So and you could see the exomphalus, this little pouch, which was obviously just the intestines where they are. You've had, you've had your Down's Syndrome check and that's okay. Some things can be seen more clearly than others. And I can, the words that the scanning member of staff used, "Everything's fine", will stay with me forever. So I suppose from that aspect, mind you having not been told that or sitting there, I wouldn't have thought necessarily that was odd. And it's, I can't remember exactly what it was now, it's about where the brain is supposed to form. Another sick joke. Some people had underestimated how serious any abnormality found at this stage could be for the baby. Not marginalised into being a victim. However, a few hours later there was another shift change. There was an extra digit on one of the hands. I had no idea if we were doing the "right" thing. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. Dont worry we wont send you spam or share your email address with anyone. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). Reading individual, real-life experiences can be a helpful resource, but it is never a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment from a qualified health care provider. And I couldn't escape the feeling that I was being selfish. Why me and not you, you bastard? Within it are a number of recommendations for the communication of findings from ultrasounds. And my husband, we never got to sit next to each other in the consulting room, my husband was across the room from me, and I was sat next to the consultant, and we were laughing and joking with him about, you know, the home delivery, and everything was going to be, 'Are you still on for the home delivery?' Purpose of screening. Soon, the doctor came and inserted the tablets that would induce labour. I couldn't work out what was taking so long and put it down to the doctor being young and inexperienced. All pregnant women should be given the booklet by their midwife or GP Screening tests for you and your baby by Public Health England, which gives detailed information about the types of scan offered and what they are looking for. Bad news at 20 week scan | Mumsnet What are the chances of bad news at the 20 week scan | Mumsnet Thinking back, I don't know how we left without him. We just couldn't use the words. She describes having to make a . We had so much power, we could decide that this little thing should die. Originally I hadn't wanted to go down that road. The sonographer will be able to tell you the results of the scan at the time. But that was too easy. And the local hospital wanted to send us off to the regional hospital to actually confirm that, and were not really prepared to say at that time that there was something very seriously wrong. I've still had no cramps or bleeding so fingers crossed everything is ok I just couldn't believe I fell down the stairs, I can't remember the last time I ever did that! I was sent home with a leaflet, strong painkillers and two types of antibiotics. Find more information and details of support groups on NHS.UK. In some cases concerns in utero fix themselves sometimes needs treatment. And they actually asked my husband to come in before they spoke to me. We left the hospital a couple of hours later. We bought little outfits, teddies, and researched all the vitamins and foods that I could eat. I felt empty, scared, guilty and incredibly heartbroken. Next most likely is that baby doesn't co-operate and they can't see some parts of anatomy and call you back 2 weeks later just because they couldn't see (i had this but because twin pregnancy I was due to be scanned 2 weeks later anyway). We scattered his ashes over a bunch of snowdrops. And at that, I let out a scream I think. So when that happened to us I really didn't worry, I thought, you know, it was literally the baby was in awkward position, they couldn't see the heart and that was why. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of such a late termination, but had assumed it would mean some kind of operation. As though I went power mad for a week, killing my innocent unborn child, and now I am tainted for ever. By this time, we were tired. Then I picked myself up. I mean the lady who was scanning was very quiet for a long time. I give pregnant women dirty looks. The hardest thing I have ever done | Health | The Guardian Because we knew that that wasn't normal, that wasn't what we'd experienced before, it wasn't just the, 'There's the arm, there's the leg, oh look the baby's moving'. She advised I be referred to the EPU to be assessed. So she said, 'Come back on Monday. I had to wait for a doctor to explain the situation. But she told us, she told us, she gave us some more detail, she said, 'There's this, there's a big gap in the brain where there shouldn't be'. I was becoming numb to the whole process. 'Soft markers'. And at that point I don't think we, I don't think we realised that there might have to be a decision, because we'd talked about it with, with Down's and the other possible problems, but at this point it was, well okay what can be done to fix the problem - because yes the heart's not developing properly but there must be something we can do. But at the 20 week scan, which was on a Wednesday, we saw the nurse at the local hospital, the sonographer, and she did a scan and she found that the femur length was quite short in the, in the fetus. That he was small. So I was a bit ignorant of the kind of things, you know, what the scans were really doing - maybe it was, a bit na've I think. No one else felt him kick. And I know I can't hurry up the process of grieving. The hardest thing I have ever done. Never lacking a sense of the dramatic, it felt as if we shared the responsibility for the terrible, dirty act that we had committed. Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and over again. We had amnio and then spent a week in absoute anguish waiting for the outcome which was no trisomies. So had to come back in a week's time for a scan, which again is quite a common thing I found out. Nights were impossible. For women who have been given distressing news about their baby during the scan, there should be a health professional available to provide immediate support. And nothing prepares you at all. If you choose not to have the scan you can still have all other parts of your routine antenatal care. We had the baby cremated. I've realised that being a nice person is a luxury some can't afford. These opinions do not represent the opinions of Tommys and are not advice from Tommy's. In a small number of cases some very serious conditions are found. This does not mean there is anything to worry about. The doctor told me he was 98% sure this was a failing twin pregnancy. Seeing your baby on a screen can be really exciting. Likely to have serious medical problems all his life. I was experiencing some light bleeding for the past few days. I broke down and started hitting my disgusting body that had done this. And, sometimes, I wish I had invited my whole family into the hospital room to see him. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. He wanted to talk about it, but I didn't. You might be offered another test to find out for certain if your baby has one of the conditions. I was wondering if anyone has been is this situation and can give me a glimmer of hope. It went from bad, to worse, to worse, to dire, then to better. Please ask your hospital about this before your appointment. No one else ever met the object of my grief. So I no longer trusted my instincts. Again the legs were quite twisted, they said that the baby's sternum was very short - things weren't in proportion you know - the head was quite large, the neck was very thick, there wasn't really like a neck as such it was just things were kind of - there were lots of things that obviously the consultant could see that we weren't aware of. Scans cannot find all conditions. And so began the most bizarre day of my life. So that was it. You will then be asked to raise your top to your chest and lower your skirt or trousers to your hips. We strongly advise readers not to take drugs that are not prescribed by your qualified healthcare provider. But you could see there was something wrong? But it is a soft marker for Edwards' syndrome. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. Most scans are carried out by specially trained staff called sonographers. Chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet Several women had taken young children with them to the 20-week scan because they expected to see 'nice pictures of the baby'. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). I travelled to work that day feeling amazing. I then found that soft markers means 'vague unproven suggestion of a link', and that echogenic locii are small concentrations of calcium which are incredibly common and harmless. By my own hand, I had to end the pregnancy. This time, they discovered the baby has a two vessel cord (only one vessel from placenta to baby instead of two) and I've been monitored to make sure the baby grows properly and kidneys aren't damaged. All women are offered a dating scan, and an 18- 20 week fetal anomaly ultrasound scan, in line with NICE and UK National Screening Committee recommendations. Many described how sonographers and doctors were very restrained and didn't speak at all until they had analysed all the baby's details. DS had 2 soft markers: talipes (club foot) and 'echogenic locii' somewhere - heart I think. I felt sad, but not the complete devastation of the last scan as they had seen a change of some sort. In order for the sonographer to get good images of your baby, the scan is carried out in a dimly lit room. The results come in stages. However painful and traumatic the labour was, it was better than what would happen at the end of it. The blood test confirmed it was twins. And everybody knows and everything is right. The same anticipation. Sometimes it is difficult to get good views of a baby. Although the anomaly scan is often called a 20-week scan, you may have it any time between 18 and 22 weeks, although it's usually done between 18 and 20 weeks. The "why me?" The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests, Ending the pregnancy for family & personal reasons, Deciding whether to see, hold and name the baby, Photographs and other mementoes of the baby, Saying goodbye to the baby - services & funerals, Coping with bereavement - women's experiences, Coping with bereavement - men's experiences, Men's ideas about their role in ending a pregnancy. Previous scans in this pregnancy and with my first child had been fun - a chance to see the baby wriggling around and perhaps find out its sex. We felt as if we were in limbo. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. BabyCenter. 17/12/2020 17:13. And the first few things they said it didn't sound as thing, as though things were terribly wrong. It's been a heartbreaking nightmare. An hour passed and I started to panic. I was becoming numb to the whole process. I tried to keep positive. Baby loss support It seemed a very arbitrary system, and so you quite often sat outside in the waiting room for a couple of hours before you actually got to see the consultant, which was, seemed you know, I kind of remember thinking before we went in to see him on the particular day when we found out there was a problem, 'Why are we sitting here? Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. This is not what I imagined pregnancy to feel like', Baby Loss Awareness Week - Voice Five - Bryony Seabrook. . We decided that we wanted medication to help me. We use some essential cookies to make this website work. Is it the same scan or is it the same equipment? For example, some babies have a condition called open spina bifida, which affects the spinal cord. Saturday came. A company limited by guarantee registered in England and Wales company number 3266897. Others said they were shocked because all the early diagnostic tests (e.g. My partner went out with him, wanting to see him. Apologise for somehow doubting their right to be in this world. Or, at the very least, heart problems. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. Yeah - in, stomach, out. The first midwife seemed to understand what we were trying to say, and said she would ask the doctor to come and talk to us. Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans And they took me to another room and they explained that the baby had what they thought was ventriculomegaly or something. And my partner and I would have a completely different life from the one we'd imagined. Sometimes specialist scans such as 3D scans, or MRI scans, are used to examine the baby in greater detail. As soon as we arrived, we were shown to this little room. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. These were said to be soft markers fo a range of trisomies, 2 of which were incompatible with life. Most hospitals do not allow children to attend scans as childcare is not usually available. See more information about the 20-week ultrasound scan. Specialist scans are performed in specialist fetal units and if clinicians feel that there might be problems scanning will be done up to 32 weeks. But the consultant had found more spots on the heart and the measurements were the same. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. The nursery I had selected for our two-year-old son; my maternity leave; the bunk beds; the summer holiday suitable for a newborn baby. Bad news at 20 week scan, please help. | Mumsnet She asked me how far gone I thought we were, and if I could have been mistaken. Parents get a chance to emotionally adapt to news and plan. I was then told yet again bad news. Three midwives came and went. chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet. But it was very evident. He felt strong and fit and healthy. At which point they turned round and said, 'Well, there is something very seriously wrong with the baby, we don't know exactly what, but you do need to have a more in-depth scan at your regional hospital to find out the detail'. b>Bad news at 20 week scan. The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests. I want to be happy again. Finally, Monday came and we went back to the hospital. The pain was bearable but uncomfortable, the hospital rang me a few days later and asked me how I was. Unfortunately I was not met with a compassionate sonographer. For example, you may be offered further tests that have a risk of miscarriage. I have a terrible hatred of pregnant women and a new respect for infertile couples. My partner watched the baby come out, and for a split second I saw a look of joy on his face. And at the end of the day however much we talked about it - that it was going to be the two of us to make the decision and me to actually you know, go through it and decide that that was what was going to happen for him - and I just, I didn't want to do it. Several women had taken young children with them to the 20-week scan because they expected to see 'nice pictures of the baby'. I was disgusted - disgusted that such a tablet existed, let alone that I should have to take it. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see 'Resources'). Despite this new discovery, the sonographer was still concerned. Tissue paper will be tucked around your clothing to protect it from the ultrasound gel, which will then be put on your tummy. Which she reassured us that she'd be absolutely fine, this was a one-off. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. I wanted to be a passive patient while the doctor did what he had to do. I was booked back in to discuss management options, if nothing had happened. I tried not to sit still for too long, because then I became too aware of the little thing inside me. We spent the next few weeks in a happy bubble. In fact, interestingly enough, going sort of. The scan will look in detail at your babys bones, heart, brain, spinal cord, face, kidneys and abdomen. Have I misunderstood what's going on?' Last reviewed July 2017. At first the closeness came through a sense of guilt. Just that really! By 7pm, I still hadn't delivered the baby. And they, sort of two of them were looking at the scan machine and then they sort of switched everything off and said, 'Oh, I think we have, might have a problem'. Some of the conditions that can be seen on the scan will mean the baby may need treatment or surgery after it is born, for example cleft lip. Trying to carry on as normal, working and putting on a brave face. So at least then we went to that next stage prepared for the worst really. If this happens, you will be offered one further scan by 23 weeks of pregnancy. And as soon as she said those words, both of us were like, 'Well what's wrong?'. Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". Some people want to find out if their baby has one of the 11 conditions and some do not. So we'd gone through the Down's syndrome or worse scare, we'd had conversations about what we would do, if it was confirmed that it was Down's syndrome or another syndrome, another sort of chromosome abnormality. 20 week scans look for 11 different anomalies as a rule, however, indicators (markers) are not terribly reliable and in all the literature I found, the targets set for stonographers look like they only pick up around 50% or less of these variants. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. And also what the prognosis would mean for our two year old: now a very happy child, he would have a completely different childhood with such an ill sibling. If one of the conditions is found or suspected, the sonographer may ask for a second opinion from another member of staff. We also use cookies set by other sites to help us deliver content from their services. (See 'Resources'). 13/12/2020 20:45. I know I could have delivered him in a quarter of the time, but I couldn't bear the thought of him leaving me. Laura miscarried her twin babies in February. or sort of light chat that we'd, we'd experienced before with previous scans. And then all of a sudden, I was still laughing and we were all very upbeat, and then suddenly, he suddenly said, but I was still, still laughing, and he said to me, 'Oh, there might be a problem, there might be a problem with the, I think this baby has hydrocephalus'. There was a very marked lack of amniotic fluid which made it difficult, not even for the scanners to see, that made the picture of the scan look very, very different. factor is very strong. Do you have any thoughts about that? Public Health England (PHE) created this information on behalf of the NHS. I hated my body and hated every feeling I was having. We'll make an appointment with the senior sonographer, the consultant at the local hospital, and she'll do your scan and she'll be able to tell you more things'. After half an hour of lying on the bed, I was starting to get nervous, but was excited to find out that the baby would be a boy and that I could see his little heart beating strongly. Our position in our families has shifted. So instead, I was advised to go home and let nature take its course. The contractions started very quickly and within an hour my waters had broken. After preparing myself to face having to take the medication. We've joined the grown-ups and we both feel very different. Abortion has never raised any moral dilemmas for me and I am an atheist, so there are no religious issues. They sort of drew some diagrams, and they said, 'But we need to refer you to a specialist to confirm the diagnosis'. If necessary, you will be referred to a specialist, possibly in another hospital. But the closeness has remained after the drama has died down. Anyway we went in for the meeting with the consultant on this particular time, and we'd got to, I was 30 weeks pregnant by then. And the doctor - because it was a doctor rather then just the, a sonographer or whatever the correct term is - was scanning my wife, and she hovered over the heart of the baby and said, 'Oh there's the heart, we'll come back to that'. My wife had been very, very healthy, more healthy than the first pregnancy, and of course was shattered by the fact that the news, the news was appalling, very serious faces. For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. However, at the time neither of us could articulate that. I feel empty and incomplete. Went back a week later for the scan and, you were with me for this one, weren't you?
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