2005, page 147, 180, Sillitoe, L., & Roberts, A. D. (1988). Yes! In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. Im was left kind of hot but dry after hoping to hear about his drama with the church and its leaders.any chance of allowing closure for me here? brent metcalfe excommunicatedperpetual futures binance. Brent Metcalf, age 31, Kingsport, TN Lived in: Greeneville TN, Elizabethton TN, Louisville TN Relatives: Terri Treadway, Kathy Edens, Douglas Metcalf View full report Brent E Metcalf, age 39, Semmes, AL Lived in: Wilmer AL, Theodore AL Relatives: Beverly Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf View full report I have heard that Mac Christianson financed the mission of one of Hofmanns sons. But once Mormonism got involved, it turned everything upside down. But it has not always been that way or worked in his favor. Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Let me clarify. "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." But Brent seems to do just the opposite. What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? Tom, have you considered allowing John to interview you? Brent is generally a giant in Mormon Studies, and is a great guy. They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. All rights reserved. I especially connected with his comments on ADD. Brent, are you still working on a Book of Abraham book? I am so grateful I stumbled across them along with D. Michael Quinns books wow now 20 years ago. saw heaven open, and Jesus at the right hand of God, and the Heavenly hosts surrounding the throne, adoring the Father and the Son in the most sublime strains, (Hibbard, _Memoirs_, 181; cf. Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. [9][4], After being fired from his job in security for the LDS Church for his writings, Metcalfe worked first for Steve Christensen and later for Mark Hofmann. 1. brent metcalfe excommunicated. This is a rumor I heard. He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. After that day I moved to the back of the class and felt like the only straight A student retard at BYU. I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. fireside chat september 3, 1939 summary . Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. When?? My question is: please discuss this shift or emphasis away from evidences and honest research (study it out in your mind), to just feelings, in regards to determining truth. This podcast inspired me to read the book Mormon Murders. Do you still believe in God, and what type of God? Is there going to be a part 3? I remember how the church/BYU was trying to treat this as a non-issue. Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. I teared up with Brent during that part. I do not have that ability as I actually changed an Economics major when I took my first accounting class. What do you think about the DCP/Hamblin FARMS implosion? and our Thank you, I didnt know about that info. Metcalfe (ed. I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. He worked directly for Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmann's victims. Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! You can have a PhD and still not have great knowledge. Great interview. So, based on Krakauers shared experience, it sounds like the answer is no, Hofmann doesnt do interviews. He told the story of writing at least a few letters to Hofmann in prison asking for an interview. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. $95k AVERAGE INCOME Our wealth data indicates income average is $95k. But those were interesting times! Yet a solid and detailed examination oflhe pre suppositions, methods, arguments, and conclusions of the vari ous readings of the Book of Mormon would still be very use Thanks! This was an important, affecting interview. Were they hiding behind Christensen for some reason? Thanks, John and Brent! What an amazing story that Brent was a participant. Also, make sure your second recording matches the first. Its very sunny in London today and Ive listened too all eleven hours of this interview. Afraid that Brent would go public with the contradictory information, the LDS church terminated him as a member. What academic publications does Mr. Metcalfe have to his name that qualifies him to be called one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham? Brent, a sophomore at the University of Iowa, completed a very hectic. He was basically threatening his entire existence. (paraphrased and likely not the actual quote from Murder Among the Mormons, Netflix documentary). Thanks again Brent, no wonder you have had the experience you have shared with your faith about God. Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). They buried the Mclellin diaries also.similar thingdidnt like the content. The second half was fascinating thank you, thank you, thank you for this podcast! Do you think he will ever come completely clean? I thought Brents response to this question very touching and informative and dont see that his research should be discredited. And how many. (The audio starts in Part 1 around 1:23.55) I did a little research and found a digitized & searchable copy of Elias Smiths autobiography. Hi Brent, Thank you for your insights and open heart. I am quite sure, that film is no longer shown. Little trace of Morison survives for much of the early 1540s, but it is clear that he built up his landed base and attached himself to . They claim that it occurred here in the USA siting scriptures and other things Joseph smith said. A scene from John Dehlin's upcoming disciplinary council, probably. the tall man aboriginal spirit; metadata api request failed: component conversion failed: file_ended; caleb foote sandlot I just got done reading the book Mormon murders. Life changing! After all, we are human! In these two episodes we discuss: The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's excommunication for his research into the Book of Mormon, and Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. Youve used it well Brent. Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune Dorie Olds is the ex-wife of Mormon bomber Mark Hofmann, who killed two people on Oct. 15, 1985. Brent Metcalf's last collegiate wrestling match was a highly anticipated one. Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. Movies. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. There was an overall feeling that he just had it together. Seventh East Press. I think that the Salt Lake LDS church is concerned with becoming the RLDS church, which has changed its narrative to a very noncompelling one, and about 80% of its members have left. Iowa's Brent Metcalf wrestles with Iowa State's Mitch Mueller during their 149 pound match Friday, March 19, 2010 in the quarterfinal round of the 2010 NCAA Division 1 Wrestling Championships at . Come to the dark side and tell your story. "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. Hoffman was Laffertys cell mate. According to Krakauer, the letter said something to the effect of, Mark wont talk to you, but I will, and you definitely want to talk to me. That response introduced Krakauer to the Laffertys and gave him the story he needed to animate what he considered his analysis of radical faith. Looking around me, every object was changed, and a bright glory appeared on everything. Brent most recently served with the Information Security/Communication Security with the Wyoming Army National Guard as an IT Specialist. o David Wright was excommunicated for apostasy in April 1994 for his nontraditional views on Mormon scripture as exhibited in essays like his chapter in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. We were not suppose to discuss the Temple, Blacks and Priesthood, and of course definitely not curtain parts of the church history such as polygamy and polyandry. [] author and editor of numerous articles and two Signature Books titles, was interviewed by John Dehlin for the Mormon Stories podcast recently. For more information, please see our What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? In Part 4, Brent examines some of the issues surrounding traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. Be the first to contribute! That was fascinating, thank you. Indeed, the trivial matters that many theists assert as claiming the attention of God (even as hell is meanwhilebreaking loose) is absurd evidently too absurd for many to even grasp. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Years ago, I attended a book reading and signing by Jon Krakauer in Marin County when he was promoting Under the Banner of Heaven. Brent Metcalf (born July 14, 1986) is an American freestyle wrestler who formerly competed in the international circuit for the United States of America. It was soul-crushing, Brent said. I just wish that I could undo everything. Despite this, though, Brent found the courage to keep his head held high and began delving deep into the issues surrounding the Book of Mormon, a topic that he had been looking to examine since the early 1980s. by Brent Metcalfe November 24, 2014 14 Comments Jan Shipps is the perfect inaugural interview for the Mormon Studies podcast. Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. Im glad the church and BYU tried and I dont blame them for making the attempt to shore up the Book of Mormon. Sandra was criticized by some Mormon Stories listeners for not being as critical of Christianity as she was of Mormonism. If the Prophet cant see Hoffman as a fraud, why should anyone assume their Bishop/Stake president has any more ability in terms of divinely inspired discernment? Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. Wow John, what an interview. He remains an enigma. What about your book did the church find cause to excommunicate you? Biography [ edit] As a prep wrestler, Metcalf went undefeated with a career record of 228-0, won four consecutive Michigan state titles, and earned six junior national titles. We Elders thought this was powerful truth, to compliment the claims of the Book of Mormon, to convince the Jew and Gentile. Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. Well also talk about the recent history of BYUs Maxwell Institute and what he sees in its future and in the future of Mormon apologetics overall. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. what happens if i ignore a ccj; Joyce Skabelund October 9, 1938 January 10, 2023 Our mother, grandma, and friend, Joyce Roth Skabelund, 84, departed this life on 10 January 2023. I cant wait to listen to the second half! Excellent question. In fact, Brent was with Mark the night before he caused the first explosion. I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. Ive heard there might. Hope all is good with you. On acquiring a PhD, after a year of university, apart from a lack of finances, I quickly noticed that the degree factory isnt a reflection on ones intelligence. The church history claims there was a great uproar about this youth that claimed to have a vision of God. Now, in the wake of 200 years of such scholarship, the Bible doesnt hold up much better than the Book of Mormon. In Episode 497, Brent Metcalfe shares an interesting fact that when Steve Christensen was called to be a Bishop that he told his Stake President that he would never excommunicate a member of his ward and if that was a problem that he wouldnt accept the calling. If youre familiar with image editing, straying from objectivity reminds me of having a color cast in a photo. We may be on our own and need to create our own justice and future, but its possible that Providence does in fact sometimes intervene. Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. He did so to prevent members from apostatizing and becoming fundamentalists. (I think that was my only disappointment, that Brent basically gave up on God because of an epiphany.). [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. Brent_Metcalfe 7 yr. ago To clarify 4blockhead's list. I was a writer for 7th East Press. The time has come to really dig in and discover our true human beginnings without religious bias. Roger that. In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. Riveting stuff. From Spencer Kimballs battle with dementia to Monsons where the hell is that driver, to the insights with Mark E Peterson, Brents influential instructors at the University of Utah. Thanks for the clarification. You sound like a delightful guy. Before Mark Hoffman was exposed as a forger, was there anything that made you wonder how he managed to make so many great finds? Pardon me for not commenting on LDS church history, but to be honest Ive read it or heard it all and have moved on. And theres no way that you can change it. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. Im definitely a fan. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: Please post your questions for Brent here. My faith failed me and that led to crisis. Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmanns victims. Because researchers like me are not taken seriously by them, even if we have serious and significant contributions. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. Mark Metcalfe Project Manager - Heavy Lift Division at Western Mechanical Electrical Millwright Services Ltd. Kitchener, Ontario, Canada 500+ connections Brent, thanks so much for sharing your tender moments as well. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. In other words, if it is an intrinsic aspect of a tradition to make historical claims or assertions about the underlying nature of the world, the falsification of those claims essentially undermines the character of that tradition. After all, he was the one who had introduced him to Steve Christensen, the first of Marks victims. Why didnt Mr. Metcalfe publish his long-anticipated book disproving the Book of Abraham? I have some insights into that. I had no idea what your beliefs were and it piqued my interest in part 1 where you talked about scripture being inspirational yet often times not historical. New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. Thanks for the interview both of you. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. I would include many of the arguments given by the critics as well. Do you know if the church took down the names of all the 7th East Press people? Dave, Ive planned on publishing a book for years; but Ive decided to publish a series of articles first that the book will build upon. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence. If you ever get the chance to talk with Steve Christensens wife and/or Brent Metcalfe again, I would like to hear you explore this dichotomy with them as they are polar opposites. John in wonderfully rare form in this oneI love it! These scholars included Dan Vogel, Stan Larson, David P. Wright, and John Kunich. I heard this in contrast to the snippet of Steve Christensens wife on a news show asking about what Steve Christensen was threatening Mark Hofmann with if he didnt produce the McClellin collection where she stated something along the lines of He was going to go to the police and have him arrested. None of this means that believing scholars and secular scholars have to treat each other poorly or that we cannot respect (even in the midst of serious disagreement) each others work. Our interview continues tonight!!! What a fascinating glimpse. Lex, you might be interested in the work of Lance Owens. LDS was newly brought to her by a missionary before me. Definitely one of my top 10 favorite stories on here. Or even presenting the center view? We should also mention that he has since been a key speaker at a conference hosted by Ex-Mormon Foundation and has given several interviews where he has detailed his lifes ups and downs. On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker interviews one of the most important scholars of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! Metcalf served as the National Freestyle Developmental Coach prior to . Elbert was the managing editor, and Ron the financial guy, so I had the impression that Elbert created the whole thing. I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. They have shown time and time again that that is all that matters to them. Isnt that a dangerous and at least weak and anything goes approach, especially for fanatical groups? As an atheist I am not without my own inconvenient truths. Well also talk in depth with Brent about how he has been able to construct a healthy and happy life outside of Mormonism. [8], Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) John and I are just trying to align our schedules, so expect parts 3 & 4 soon. Three or four episodes were mentioned by John. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. hope my comment wasnt insensitive! Very informative. Thanks to the both of you! 100% CAUCASIAN Our ethnicity data indicates the majority is Caucasian. I devoutly attended BYU in the mid 70s. I discovered New Approaches to the Book of Mormon back in 2002-03. I have that info direct from Mac himself. Why have you distanced yourself from actively publishing and engaging topics on forums as you did in years past? Without good research, ours is a heritage shallow in meaning. Life seemed euphoric until I was excommunicated from the church because I questioned and I researched. Please share your feeling about this observation as well, and how this may affect future missionary work, growth of the church and most importantly the individual peace of mind of its members. See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. I have question on the Book of Abraham. I think we ought to be okay with these questions, and not automatically defensive. This doesn't mean that Metcalfe has accurately translated that theory into his study of things Mormon. Please let us know. He has also served in the United States Air Force (Air National Guard) since 2004. Long question, sorry ! I still remember the demo you and your friends gave in the Rec Hall for Mutual. I happen to believe so. Why do you think it is that the church is so fearful of discoveries such as the letters by Mark H ? Also, the rest of your experience is so totally mind-blowing-interesting. Billy Hibbard, for instance, who became a Methodist preacher, recounted: I thought how happy must Jesus Christ have been when he suffered for sinners. So, so good. From your perspective, what are the 3-5 best pieces of evidence for the historicity of the bom? That piqued my interest in the whole sordid affair. Unintended consequences here we come! Thats something each person must decide for themselves, but Ive made peace with my own interpretation.. She was in the middle of her frustrations with the MTC (and some of you know the story). Fixed: Release in which this issue/RFE has been fixed.The release containing this fix may be available for download as an Early Access Release or a General Availability Release. And how was it working with Mr. Ritner? In 1539 he was elected as an MP for the rst time and was appointed to serve in the King's Privy Chamber. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Growing up I only had positive interactions with his beautiful wife and kids. I was a newly returned missionary at BYU when all of this took place. Over the years you just reason, that a faith shouldnt be that complicated. On Wiwikipedia, it mentions that in a hit piece done by Dan Peterson, that he encodeds the message, Metcalfe is a butthead. What were your qurarrels like with FARMS? I happened to not do soat least, not yet. Were they watching us? Other early-19thC religionists were even more literal in their descriptions. Given that, do you think that Joseph Smith deliberately plotted, prepared, researched, drafted, re-drafted the book over several years, or did it flow spontaneously from his subconscious mind in ways even he didnt understand? John Dehlin Faces Excommunication. Thomas, I can assure you Im living on the same planet you are. According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. If Catholicism were ultimately true, for example, then in the final accounting its dogmatic claims would not be hamstringing- they would serve as a clarifying lens through which to analyze historical questions, a lens which helps the believing scholar from wasting his time investigating a false path. Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. The insight into the many corners of Mormonism important to us here was delicious. Im not sure who made this comment, (I think that it was on another thread),But it went something like thisBased upon the bretherns actions regarding the Salamander letter, The LDS leadership thought that Mark Hofmann was telling the truth and that Joseph Smith was the fraud. They even go so far as to claim that Zarahemla was directly across the river from Nauvoo, and that the waters of mormon are Big Springs, MO. Brent, going back ten+ years when we first interacted online (message boards), but this interview gave me many more insights. Would that fit the time frame the book is given in? During the first part of his interview, usually John will ask a question about gaining a testimony while in the Mormon church or have spiritual experiences and then pairing those experiences with the Mormon narrative. John and I recorded an additional four hours (till 1 AM). I was nervous that you belonged to the catalyst crowd and relieved to hear your developed belief, or non belief. [8] Personal life [ edit] Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. african american gastroenterologist near me; district 36 lofts; how to turn off scan text on iphone 12 It was so amazing to hear another person explain nearly my identical experience. They are in a tough spot. Oh. The portion you quoted is an example of what I dub a conversion epiphany (as I mentioned in the podcast). 2) It seems to me that most of the critiques in the 21st century arent recent developments, rather they already existed for sometimes decades (credit to Brodie and the Tanners for that). [2][3], At first Metcalfe was placed on 30 days probation by the LDS Security department and ordered to "sever yourself from involvement with people, groups, or publications that teach doctrines, privately or publicly, which are contrary to those of the Prophet." Hinckley never responded, but was shortly thereafter offered the job by Christensen, which Metcalfe felt was orchestrated by Hinckley. brent metcalfe excommunicated. Thank you Brentyou are certainly one of the true Saturdays Warriors Thank you Mormonstories.org I am glad I came across your website! In it, Metcalfe himself wrote an essay that was the first to advance the Mosiah priority theory, or that Joseph Smith began dictating the Book of Mormon from the Book of Mosiah. Since you worked for Steven Christensen, could you shed any light on the main reason why Steven purchased documents from Hoffman was it just to donate documents to the church? 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? Anyone know what that is and where I can find out more? My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library.